For the past couple of months, something has been bugging me about the “Boulder Community”. I have been thinking that perhaps it comes from a single person, but thats not it. Or perhaps from certain events, but thats not it either.

Perhaps its the economy and the general pall its placed on everything. But thats doesnt seem right either.

This pea at the bottom of the princess’ bed has caused enough consternation that I have snapped at people I consider friends, stopped interacting with others that potentially were the root cause of the pain.

But I havent figured out the source.

Until tonight.

I got an email from a PR person here in town. It was clearly a form letter, and its reproduced in its entirety below (except the names of the writers):

Micah,

A recent New York Times article caught our attention – “Florida, the Next Hotbed of Venture Capital?” Orlando over Boulder? No way.

People who visit our fair city often comment on how unaware they are of the great entrepreneur community here, and XXXXXXX and I want to help get the word out. A lot of our community members blog on about it individually, but we would like to do a concentrated effort to get our community to blog about it . As someone we respect as an important part of the Boulder community, we’re asking you to write a blog post (and it can be more than one) about why you like working and living in Boulder the week of March 1 – 7. Why that particular week? We like it because it falls before SXSW and it’s the same week as TechStars for a day.

We’ll be presenting our idea tonight at Boulder Ignite, but wanted to give you the heads up and ask for your support. We want companies, VCs, entrepreneurs and your Mom to write blog posts about what makes Boulder such a great place to work and live. It can be We’d love to get 30 people to do blog posts, and would love your help. If you do write a blog post, e-mail XXXX@XXXXXX.com, and we’ll do an ongoing list on Boulder.me the week of March 1 – 7. And if you want to Tweet about why you like about Boulder that week use the hashtag #Boulderme.

We don’t want (or need) to be the next Silicon Valley, but we certainly don’t want cities like Orlando being seen as the next big entrepreneurial hub. We want to change others perceptions about Boulder.

My immediate reaction was: “Let Orlando be thought as the next whatever. While the idiots in Orlando are spending time at Epcot Center, I will be working to make Lijit the best startup it can be. While people are caring about Orlando, I will watch venture capital increase in Colorado. Let Orlando have its Disney World; I will take the community and my mentors here in Boulder any day.”

Yet, the word “community” stuck in my throat.

Has the word community become just a hollow word like entrepreneur?

I ran into the PR person at the Boulder Ignite event. She said to me “We dont even want the best teams to go to Techstars Boston.” How is that community building? Isnt Techstars itself a community?

In reply, I said “A real startup community would love to see successful startups everywhere. It validates startups as a viable business model. At Lijit, we work with startups all over the country. I would rather see successful startups period, regardless of location.”

It seems that what has developed is a set of communities with subcommunties that interact with other communities.

Which I get and is ok. But here is the rub.

When members of one community begin to promote their community as the “best” community (which by definition what one is doing via promotion — take the example the email I received), it no longer is about the community. Its about the promoters.

The community ceases to be a real community. There develops groupings, clicques and class systems. Hazing, in-fighting and self-promotion.

And here it is, a year after I joined the Boulder community, and while on the outside it appears that our community is strong and vibrant, the self promoters are getting louder, requests for others to become self-promoters are coming faster, and the very thing this community is specifically NOT about is becoming reality. The very community people are looking to promote is being weakened from within because the individual has now become more important than the community.

Look, I might be off my rocker.

Its easy to say that I am one of those self-promoters (although I would argue that my promotion is of me, and is part of my personality. I dont really think about how to promote. I just do a lot of stuff, and sometimes it sticks.) You might think that I am a completely hypocritical moron, and frankly, thats ok. Part of a groups dynamic is that not everyone in the group has to be liked by the group in order for the group to survive and thrive.

But when I wrote in my response to Sarah Lacy:

And for all the analysis, it could be as simple as knowing that putting our heads down, working our asses off and supporting each other, coupled with a real desire to see Boulder (not a company, not our reputation, not our place in history, but the entire community) succeed, will always lead to an outcome that bears more a valuable, satisfying fruit.

I meant it. We dont need to be noisy to create noise. Boulder is a fantastic community filled with people that understand that its about being excellent, not about being in the New York Times.

You want to be part of something excellent? Be excellent and check out Boulder. You want to be “that guy” that everyone “knows” and has thousands and thousands of Twitter followers, be that. Just know that you are not improving Boulder by being “that guy.”

You can only improve the Boulder Community by frankly, shutting the fuck up, and excelling.

Reblog this post [with Zemanta]

Popularity: unranked [?]

Share and Enjoy:
  • Suggest to Techmeme via Twitter
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • FriendFeed
  • Digg
  • StumbleUpon
  • Yahoo! Buzz
  • Reddit
  • Sphinn
  • del.icio.us
  • Facebook
  • Mixx
  • email
  • Ping.fm

View Comments to “We Dont Need to be Noisy to Create Noise”

  1. I hear what you're saying about things tending towards the promoters more than the community, but I think you might be taking this a bit far. Is it really all that damaging to recognize that there is something unique and good about the people and shared innovation in Boulder and want to tell others about it?

  2. I find everything you write to be intriguing – although I would argue that self-promotion is not necessarily a sin. Self-promotion without substance is truly what kills communities. People like GaryVee are total self-promoters – but they do it with substance behind them. Whether that substance is personal dark matter, business savvy, or the company they represent – the substance needs to be there. Without it, it does become a cancer that can eat away at everything from social lives, businesses and, to your point, communities.

    I'm not here to judge who or what substance is. I'm a corporate stooge with no start up experience. I enjoy the people in the “tech community” because I learn from them constantly. At the same time, I do see the potential problems that can happen at community pep rallys. The cheerleaders can never become more important than the players. But the passion to create, sustain and advocate for a community is also very important. Without it, companies with superior product may be overlooked or perhaps never found. There's a fine line as to how to do that. I'm not one to say what that line is but I do believe Boulder will be a successful community with self-appointed ombudsman like yourself, Micah, who aren't afraid to question things.

  3. Micah,

    AWESOME post. I live/work in Southern California and have had very similar observations as the scene here has exploded over the last 18 months. I remind people that there is a difference between a scene, a community and an ecosystem. It’s important to understand where you want to dig in (me, I’m an ecosystem kinda guy – I like startups, universities, investors and industry). One thing I always give our community ‘leaders’ credit for is creating the places for everyone to meet – I wouldn’t know any of my current collaborators were it not for the flood of events in 2008. I encourage people to remember it takes all types to make it work. And oh yeah, there is that thing called work. So, I say if you want to be apart of something excellent (and sustainable) get to work – start a company, mentor a company, invest in a company, partner with a startup – do something to foster the ecosystem. I’m actively doing what I can with my friends (we are starting a founders group to help early stage companies grow) and am looking forward to reaching out to a few other organizations that are helping foster early stage ecosystems in other locations. At the end of the day its hard work doing this startup thing no matter where you live – so lets all do what we can to help each other succeed because success breeds success (cheesy but true). Thanks for sharing your experience. You’ve inspired me to go work on a post I’ve had in my head for months.

  4. My biggest issue here is that the person who sent you the email asking for you to blog about Boulder is taking something that ISN'T about Boulder and making it so. The NYT article didn't say “Orlando is a hotbed of VC activity that all entrepreneurs should check out. Oh, and fuck Boulder.” I fully agree that at a certain point civic pride becomes a guise for politicking to be a “scene leader.” To respond to Rob – no, there's nothing damaging at all about people who want to be flag waiving enthusiasts about where they live. It's entirely another thing to be creating a back-channel organization so that it appears that everyone in Boulder is singing its praises all at the same time as a strategic move in a one-sided war.

    I once had a girlfriend who was from California who used to reply to everything with “well, that's cool – but back in California we…”. Somehow everything that was said or done inspired her to tell everyone how much better is was in California or inform us of the differences between what we were doing and what she would have done in California. Moral? That shit gets annoying, and it gets annoying fast.

    Trust me, I'm new here. I don't have all this inherent civic pride that the PR person and her cohort have. But I infinitely agree with Micah about just STFU'ing and focus on being a better fill-in-the-blank, and THAT effort is what will attract people to Boulder. Not 30+ blog posts all saying the same thing, “nah-nah, our city is better than your city, nah-nah”

  5. Short answer: No. There is nothing damaging about recognizing the uniqueness and goodness in the people of a community. But shouldnt that be self-evident? Shouldnt a community (which by my definition is a group of people centered around a particular topic) just worry about excelling, not about what others think about the community? Does a community get better through growth (which is the sole purpose of self-promotion, correct)?

    I am not sure of the answers, except that I think good work should stand on its own. It should tell others about the good things the community has to offer.

  6. I think your points are solid. The truth is I love the community we have here, and am very protective of it. I think at the end of the day, we should be more about protecting our community rather than promoting it. Gary promotes Gary. There is no community.

  7. I agree with you jeffrey. I hope that none of us have the goal of simply trying to make boulder a more attractive community. my goal is to make eventvue succeed. micah's goal is to see lijit succeed. and if community develops here as that happens (like it has already) then I'll happily report & celebrate that when appropriate. but community building for the sake of community building is just not that meaningful. and I think that was part of your point.

  8. I feel ya. There's a guaranteed outgrowth of people around those doing something new and interesting, specifically in tech. These people drawn to the new people working on new things can sense what is happening and want to protect it from everyone else. I think they do this because since they can't make it themselves, they have to be ever-so-guarded of it when it's near them. For them it might leave and they'll be left empty handed.

    But the doer doesn't care, because the doer will make something else. The doer will always be at the center of the community, and the rest will always be trying to find their role in the community and protect it.

    I'm sure I'm speaking far too vaguely for this to be fact, but I bet you know what I'm saying ;)

    And I feel you. Nothing worse than putting your heart into something and feeling it being co-opted underneath your feet.

  9. I love the line “foster the ecosystem.” There are so many ways to do that within the community itself (many you list). Its one of the reasons, I love Techstars. It fosters so many components of the ecosystem that the overall tech community is improved. I would love to hear (and learn) from what you guys are doing in SoCal. Next time I down there, lets grab lunch.

  10. You're right, that was totally my point. Boulder is a great city because it's comprised of great people doing great things. These things are self-evident when someone is evaluating which city to move to and why. I just find it pointless to be so defensive about Boulder, because it overshadows it's subtle greatness with seeming desperation. There is a very distinct difference between value and perceived value, and at the end of the day only one matters. Guess which one?

  11. Thats whats nice about boulder. I dont think anyone is trying to steal the sunshine (as it were). I think people are either a) so in love with Boulder that they feel they need to scream it to the world, but talk about the city – not the activity within Boulder that truly makes it rad; and b) people that feel its the “in” thing to promote Boulder.

    I do like your concentric circle visual, of the doer being at the center of a community. I think that is certainly true for Boulder. We champion success. Losers disappear. There is a high bar in Boulder. Which is probably the number one reason I like being here. If I am not excellent (in output, not in words), Boulder will spit me out, and I will move to SF where its about the words. (C'mon, that was an easy one!)

    Be excellent and create. Thats what Im good at, and why I love Boulder. It demands it of the community.

  12. Screw you guys… Orlando rules! Boulder drools.

    Signed,
    The guy still pissed Boulder stole away his heterosexual business lifemate Eric.

  13. Lunch indeed – LMK when you are in town. I'd love to chat and learn more from you guys – from a distance it looks like you guys have one of the best early stage ecos. TechStars has been an inspiration for what I'm working on with friends. Keep on being excellent. (twitter @gammill)

  14. Promoting your city IS protecting it – it makes sure you get the share of the VC pie that's out there is important – especially in this day and age. Would Lijit be where it is if it was just people lowering their head down and programming the widget and then hoping their work stood out? Probably not – it needs the whole business development, marketing, and “dark matter” to make it successful. The combination of all of that is what makes a success. Apply that to a city – where you need success stories like Social Thing, proven working solutions like Lijit, TechStars, etc, marginal start ups, side industries like PR, and even the failures. You start to take any of that out – and losing VC to other cities won't effect the Lijit's as much as it would choke out the mid to bottom tier and the side industries – and you lose a lot. Maybe the people in those groups are great people to brainstorm with that make you a better person/worker, maybe they cheerlead the people at the top helping WOM and activation, maybe they just make those 16 hour work days a little more bearable with a friendly face. Whatever it is, protecting that is important. Some can do it with their hard work. Others will do it with their cheerleading. When the two don't balance each other – things will fall apart. It's good to ask the question from time to time, but, if protection is your goal – understand the importance of promotion in that equation. Police it so it has substance and not, as Jeffrey put it, “nah-nah, our city is better than your city, nah-nah” but don't dismiss it entirely.

    (start self promotion) it's georgegsmithjr – you forgot the middle “g” on Twitter when you mentioned me to @robjohnson (end self-promotion)

  15. First much apologies for getting your 400 CHARACTER twitter name wrong Change to to GGSJ, so much easier to remember, or crocsguy.. :) Yes, there are people that write the story and people that tell the story. Outreach is as important in many ways (look at the fantastic job Tara does at Lijit).

    But the question is the long-term viability and strength of a community doesnt come from the promotion of the community. What is the sole reason a community needs to be promoted (the community mind you, not the companies or people within it)? To attract people or resources. Does the addition of either improve or decrease the value of the community? I dunno.

    Think about the promotion around Boulder. Its always “Boulder is Rad.” Never why its rad. You hear “Our tech community is second to none.” Never why its second to none. Therefore, the promotion is more about the people promoting, than whats being promoted are the promoters themselves (of course it could be that the promoters themselves are just not strong and are slightly misguided promoters – youth does that sometimes).

    My question is still the same: Does promotion of a community by a community member help or hurt the community? I would rather excel and create external evangelists that sing the praises of Boulder and, more importantly, the people/companies in the community, than waste a second promoting Boulder out of context.

    BTW, look to other cities like Chicago and DC. They HAVE to promote their tech communities because its in their best interest to increase the size of their communities and the resources flowing into them. I am unsure if that logic holds for Boulder.

  16. Great thoughts. Don't know the answer to most of them. Only time will tell.

    And I like my long ass name. It's my job to make people remember it correctly – if I fail, well – I suck.

  17. Well said GeorgeWithTheAmazinglyLongTwitterNameThatNoOneCanRememberJr.

  18. “We don’t want (or need) to be the next Silicon Valley, but we certainly don’t want cities like Orlando being seen as the next big entrepreneurial hub. We want to change others perceptions about Boulder.”

    Tell people how awesome the Boulder tech scene is – great! I still do and I moved (suckers). But, don't do it simply to keep other places from being seen as cool. Silicon Valley might not be seen as “The Next Big Thing”, but it's established and companies still go there. I'd much rather see Boulder be seen as an established community instead of “Next”. Boulder is “Now” and Orlando may be “Next” and we can all work together to make our scenes better for their substance, not because the people who live in them think they're cool (duh?), and not to try to keep another scene from being “Next”.

  19. As the PR person – Elaine Ellis – I'd like to add a bit more perspective about where I was coming from.

    Ten months ago I went to my first Boulder Denver Tech Meetup, and was so shy I pretended to text the whole “social time” on a dead cell phone. But pretty quickly the tech scene went out its way to be nice to me. A lot of the people you saw on the slides frequently last night went out of their way to help me – Jeremy Tanner, Tara Anderson, Andrew Hyde, etc. Two Tech Meetups ago, Robert Reich made a comment – that more people were raising their hands looking for jobs than those who had jobs available. It was the first time it had ever happened, and that we need people to innovate and start companies. It got me thinking about what we could do to get the word out. It was a bullet point on my presentation, but with 15 seconds per slide, I obviously didn't get it in there or my e-mail.

    Also to one of your earlier points, I want good teams to succeed at both TechStars locations, but I do want good companies based here. From a short- and long-term perspective, I think it's really important to Colorado. The head of the Denver Metro Economic Development Council had a point that one of the reasons Colorado is doing well compared to the rest of the country is because we've diversified industries – aerospace, energy, tech. As he said we've got one the coolest seats in hell during this recession, and I think that's important. If you're familiar with the Colorado paradox, the front range has one of the most highly educated workforces, but one of the most dismal high school graduation rates in the country. To continue to have this kind of workforce, first and foremost, we'll need to solve our education problem, but we'll also need to continue to attract intelligent people to Colorado. I understand with recent NYT articles, “I Dream of Denver,” and being on every best place to live list this might not be a problem.
    ,
    You have some really valid points, and I appreciate your honesty. One of my favorite parts about Boulder is that it is unpretentious, and maybe it's not in the spirit of Boulder to do this. But ultimately, I still think it's a fun community project. I like having people talk about what Boulder means to them and why they like living here. I put it in what was to me a fun, spirited way, but I see why it rubbed you the wrong way. So don't participate. That's ok with me.

  20. I truly appreciate and respect your perspective. It appears that we understand each other, and I hope your project achieves the success you anticipate.

    Also, I hope it helps you understand blogger outreach (not to be preachy). In truth, if the roles were reversed, given my previous posts about self-promotion, I would have left me off the list.

    Let me know if I can be helpful in the future. As with this project, I will always be open and honest about my intended responses privately
    before publishing anything publicly.

  21. Promoting your city IS protecting it – it makes sure you get the share of the VC pie that's out there is important – especially in this day and age. Would Lijit be where it is if it was just people lowering their head down and programming the widget and then hoping their work stood out? Probably not – it needs the whole business development, marketing, and “dark matter” to make it successful. The combination of all of that is what makes a success. Apply that to a city – where you need success stories like Social Thing, proven working solutions like Lijit, TechStars, etc, marginal start ups, side industries like PR, and even the failures. You start to take any of that out – and losing VC to other cities won't effect the Lijit's as much as it would choke out the mid to bottom tier and the side industries – and you lose a lot. Maybe the people in those groups are great people to brainstorm with that make you a better person/worker, maybe they cheerlead the people at the top helping WOM and activation, maybe they just make those 16 hour work days a little more bearable with a friendly face. Whatever it is, protecting that is important. Some can do it with their hard work. Others will do it with their cheerleading. When the two don't balance each other – things will fall apart. It's good to ask the question from time to time, but, if protection is your goal – understand the importance of promotion in that equation. Police it so it has substance and not, as Jeffrey put it, “nah-nah, our city is better than your city, nah-nah” but don't dismiss it entirely.

    (start self promotion) it's georgegsmithjr – you forgot the middle “g” on Twitter when you mentioned me to @robjohnson (end self-promotion)

  22. First much apologies for getting your 400 CHARACTER twitter name wrong Change to to GGSJ, so much easier to remember, or crocsguy.. :) Yes, there are people that write the story and people that tell the story. Outreach is as important in many ways (look at the fantastic job Tara does at Lijit).

    But the question is the long-term viability and strength of a community doesnt come from the promotion of the community. What is the sole reason a community needs to be promoted (the community mind you, not the companies or people within it)? To attract people or resources. Does the addition of either improve or decrease the value of the community? I dunno.

    Think about the promotion around Boulder. Its always “Boulder is Rad.” Never why its rad. You hear “Our tech community is second to none.” Never why its second to none. Therefore, the promotion is more about the people promoting, than whats being promoted are the promoters themselves (of course it could be that the promoters themselves are just not strong and are slightly misguided promoters – youth does that sometimes).

    My question is still the same: Does promotion of a community by a community member help or hurt the community? I would rather excel and create external evangelists that sing the praises of Boulder and, more importantly, the people/companies in the community, than waste a second promoting Boulder out of context.

    BTW, look to other cities like Chicago and DC. They HAVE to promote their tech communities because its in their best interest to increase the size of their communities and the resources flowing into them. I am unsure if that logic holds for Boulder.

  23. Great thoughts. Don't know the answer to most of them. Only time will tell.

    And I like my long ass name. It's my job to make people remember it correctly – if I fail, well – I suck.

  24. Well said GeorgeWithTheAmazinglyLongTwitterNameThatNoOneCanRememberJr.

  25. “We don’t want (or need) to be the next Silicon Valley, but we certainly don’t want cities like Orlando being seen as the next big entrepreneurial hub. We want to change others perceptions about Boulder.”

    Tell people how awesome the Boulder tech scene is – great! I still do and I moved (suckers). But, don't do it simply to keep other places from being seen as cool. Silicon Valley might not be seen as “The Next Big Thing”, but it's established and companies still go there. I'd much rather see Boulder be seen as an established community instead of “Next”. Boulder is “Now” and Orlando may be “Next” and we can all work together to make our scenes better for their substance, not because the people who live in them think they're cool (duh?), and not to try to keep another scene from being “Next”.

  26. As the PR person – Elaine Ellis – I'd like to add a bit more perspective about where I was coming from.

    Ten months ago I went to my first Boulder Denver Tech Meetup, and was so shy I pretended to text the whole “social time” on a dead cell phone. But pretty quickly the tech scene went out its way to be nice to me. A lot of the people you saw on the slides frequently last night went out of their way to help me – Jeremy Tanner, Tara Anderson, Andrew Hyde, etc. Two Tech Meetups ago, Robert Reich made a comment – that more people were raising their hands looking for jobs than those who had jobs available. It was the first time it had ever happened, and that we need people to innovate and start companies. It got me thinking about what we could do to get the word out. It was a bullet point on my presentation, but with 15 seconds per slide, I obviously didn't get it in there or my e-mail.

    Also to one of your earlier points, I want good teams to succeed at both TechStars locations, but I do want good companies based here. From a short- and long-term perspective, I think it's really important to Colorado. The head of the Denver Metro Economic Development Council had a point that one of the reasons Colorado is doing well compared to the rest of the country is because we've diversified industries – aerospace, energy, tech. As he said we've got one the coolest seats in hell during this recession, and I think that's important. If you're familiar with the Colorado paradox, the front range has one of the most highly educated workforces, but one of the most dismal high school graduation rates in the country. To continue to have this kind of workforce, first and foremost, we'll need to solve our education problem, but we'll also need to continue to attract intelligent people to Colorado. I understand with recent NYT articles, “I Dream of Denver,” and being on every best place to live list this might not be a problem.
    ,
    You have some really valid points, and I appreciate your honesty. One of my favorite parts about Boulder is that it is unpretentious, and maybe it's not in the spirit of Boulder to do this. But ultimately, I still think it's a fun community project. I like having people talk about what Boulder means to them and why they like living here. I put it in what was to me a fun, spirited way, but I see why it rubbed you the wrong way. So don't participate. That's ok with me.

  27. I truly appreciate and respect your perspective. It appears that we understand each other, and I hope your project achieves the success you anticipate.

    Also, I hope it helps you understand blogger outreach (not to be preachy). In truth, if the roles were reversed, given my previous posts about self-promotion, I would have left me off the list.

    Let me know if I can be helpful in the future. As with this project, I will always be open and honest about my intended responses privately
    before publishing anything publicly.

  28. I see similar behavior here in RTP. I'm with Micah on this one – STHU and get on with doing something, not telling us how this is “going to be great” or, god forbid, “going to be the next Silicon Valley.

    There's a time and a place for networking and cheerleading, but I 100% understand your point…

  29. I like your thoughts on this Micah. They prompted me to muse more about promotion in general.

    I think there's a distinction here that might be useful, and that is between promoting a community and sharing a community.

    I think there is a lot to be said for sharing what's happening in a community with those not already enveloped in it. That way a community can exchange ideas with other communities, invite others to become part of it, even serve as an example (good or bad). This level of communication, I feel, can be healthy, and tends to reflect the reality (even if it's perceived reality) of the state of the community.

    Promotion, on the other hand, seems too often to push beyond the reality and create perceptions of it that aren't accurate. Generally, this is used to embellish the status/success/vitality of a community (or product). I think this type of promotion is common, and leads to a disconnect between reality and perception that ultimately disappoints those who received the promotional message.

    For example, deliberately causing a flood of posts and blogs about how awesome Boulder is creates a false perception about how often people in this community actually do blog about how awesome Boulder is. So the promotion causes a blip, sure, maybe we've inspired some people to learn more about the community, not a bad thing. When the flood of posts subsides, what remains? Reality. Instead, let's change reality so people are actually doing more raving about the community they are lucky enough to be a part of, and then joyfully share that reality; the energy, passion, and creativity that make Boulder so awesome, with no false pretenses or need to compete in a war of verbal superlatives.

    Either way, communication is great, blog posts, news articles, company press releases, entrepreneurial presentations, meetups, etc. But be wary of promoting false perceptions. Spend energy making the reality better instead, and the sharing that inevitably results will mean more.

  30. RE: The follow-up comment from Elaine…Looks like you left “biotech” off of the list that Tom Clark or Joe Blake likely spoke of! Where is the bio love? Take a look at all of the local recently financed bio companies here http://onbiovc.com/category/x-rocky-mountain/

    “The head of the Denver Metro Economic Development Council had a point that one of the reasons Colorado is doing well compared to the rest of the country is because we've diversified industries – aerospace, energy, tech.”

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Learning to Duck from @micah « traction matters…
  2. Episode 4 - Promoting Community | LearntoDuckTV

Leave a Reply

You can use these tags: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

blog comments powered by Disqus